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Interview w/Reef The Lost Cauze & Adam 12
By: Dom Pinelli
Although Adam 12 and Reef the Lost Cauze may seem like oil and water in some regards, an exclusive 215HipHop.com discussion on coming up as Philadelphia rappers shows not only their like-mindedness as underground emcees, but their mutual respect as artists…
215: You guys have been collaborating a lot together in the past few years; when did you first cross paths?
Reef: I definitely recall seeing Adam 12 perform at Latazza… I would say late winter 2002.
Adam12: Ya, I knew you through Karma Response [Unit] at the time.
Reef: Right, my people Happ G and Scandal brought me to the Latazza, Silk City, and all those places along with Arrakis Records and some others to get my live performance out there. Through them I established relationships with cats like 12, Uncle T, Briz and all them… [Underground hip-hop]’s a small circle here, and there are very few that will earn the respect to let them stick around…
Adam12: Definitely, heads came and went; a lot got weeded out, but the real, persistent emcees stayed in it. It’s natural that we all link up at one point.
215: A year or two back, someone well-established in the Philadelphia rock scene said he admires the local hip-hop artists because they have a more communal mentality relative to other types of music artists in the city, in the sense that they want to promote Philly hip-hop as whole in addition to their individual careers… Do you agree with this?
Adam12: I think about a year ago Philly was at one of its peaks of artists being different, yet being together and working with each other. But rap’s rap; everybody’s out for themselves. That’s how it is in the music industry regardless. For a long time it was really tough to get down with other crews, and then rap took over the world, so there’s power in numbers. You expose somebody else and they’ll expose you if it’s cool like that.
Reef: I pretty much agree; it depends on whether people see you as a peer or a rival. In a way, I think being together as a city requires us to think beyond Philadelphia and think about the bigger picture… There are so many rappers or crews that had Philly locked down, thinking they already made it when in reality they hadn’t. A lot of dudes feed into their own hype with the yes-men and all that other stuff. And one thing me and 12 have in common is we laugh at that shit amongst ourselves when people are like, ‘Yo! You guys are this; you guys are that’, because we know we’re all still struggling to make it… There are so many Philly emcees that were about to blow that became too content with their position as ‘king of Philly’ or whatever, and also saw themselves as being to big for certain [local] associations. These are the same cats that feel threatened by the new talented artists that come up and hate on them instead of helping them… But just imagine if all these different circles dropped their egos and came out to support each others shows.
Adam12: And there’s always that dude who’s younger and new to the game that you can see potential in… It’s good to work with these people and get on their songs, because then their whole crew knows you and is down with all your stuff too now. You know how kids are when they first get on; they’re hungry. These are the dudes going to parties and playing that track 15 times in a night for their people. Why not be on it with him?
215: Do think with the right approach emcees like yourselves and some others like Jedi Minds, iCON the Mic King, etc could be on the brink of bringing the national spotlight on raw, Philly hip hop?
Reef: I say that all the time, man. If I had the money and the resources I honestly feel like I could run a label just off the talent here; I just know so many dope emcees. I hear their records; then I hear other heads that are on in the industry, and it breaks my heart and pisses me off. I have to ask why that [underground] dude isn’t where he needs to be.
Adam12: I think a lot of heads are jaded too, because of the scene here and how hard it is to come up. Most of them feel like it’s not worth it.
215: What is it about the ‘Philly scene’ that makes it especially tough to stand out as an underground emcee?
Reef: For some reason, Philly doesn’t seem to have that ‘united front’ of independently grown artists like you see in places like NC and Houston. In California [for example], they have one of the biggest indie scenes out there because the people support the idea of artistic outlet, and in Philly’s that’s kind of shunned. We have the art museum and all those other things, but I would say this is a pretty blue collar, meat and potatoes type of town. So you’re not going to get much support for anything that’s outside the box… Plus I don’t think there’s really a ‘scene’ here. It’s like there are two different temples; there’s a ‘Philly Hip Hop Awards’ put on by one group that caters to certain circles, and then at some other point in the year there’s another ‘Philly Hip Hop Awards’ that has nothing to do with any of the artists involved in the other one. Like tonight [as we do this interview] there are two or three album release parties we know about in the city, and there’s probably another six or seven that we don’t.
Adam12: And what Reef just said about people having no love for others that think outside the box is disappointing, because I think that’s something limited to rap and emceeing these days. I see all types of different bands blowing up in Philly for being really unique, but for some reason it’s really tough to integrate rap. Like it can only be one of two categories: dope or wack, depending on stuff like what neighborhood you’re from and who the kids are that rhyme with you… West Philly, to me, is like the fucking final frontier (laughing). Not just because I’m from Northeast, but because all the hip-hop heads over there have a totally different style, but are all similar from growing up the same way and whatnot, same as me and the people I started out with. But what’s stopping us from getting to them and vice versa? [As it is now], if someone from out of town would say “that Philly sound” I might have to check what they were talking about. That could me and Tarp, or it could mean E. Ness and those heads.
215: Reef briefly referred to a lack of what he called a “united front” in Philly relative to southern cities. Do you think such a thing is necessary to sort of optimize the success of an emcee that’s not from New York City or Los Angeles?
Reef: No matter where you go, I think it can be said that there’s not a united front. Because in the music game, you really have to be an individual and go your own way, so I think the main thing is to not settle for just Philly. If you don’t get the support or love you think you should from your hometown, that doesn’t mean you should stop there. You should take your show on the road. The fact that there’s not a united front in Philly right now doesn’t stop a lot of people from selling records.
Adam12: I definitely think it’s easier for [hip-hop] crews out of the south to maintain a family mentality. In the context of the history of rap, the south is kind of new and a lot of southern cities are still trying to get on the map; and you make a stronger impact if you pull your forces together and hit them with a harder punch. If I blow up, nobody’s thinking ‘oh shit, Philly’s on the map’. The way I see it, I’m not really helping bolster the status of Philadelphia in any way; neither is Reef, neither is Jedi Minds, or anybody else doing hip-hop here right now.
Reef: The industry’s definitely a different climate here than in most other large cities; we’ve always had a chip on our shoulder. This is a city that’s been in the shadow of New York for as long as any of us can remember, and there’s always been that competitive drive within ourselves to overcome that. Unfortunately, what that usually ends up tearing shit apart from the insides, and people here need to stop letting that happen.
215: Earlier, Reef said that he could run a label off the talent in Philly if he had the resources… If you guys did have the resources to do so, who would you put on?
Reef: Hmm… That’s a good fucking question… I would probably sign The Antidote. They’re my people from when I was a child; they taught me how to rhyme and I really believe in them… Also, Shelliano from West Philly, whose one of the craziest, nastiest emcees out; I think he could be the next DMX or something… And my young bull, Mack Dubb because he could definitely sell some records. He’s dope on the mic, plus he’s young and the ladies dig him… There’s plenty more where that came from though.
Adam12: Yeah there’s mad heads we know that should be famous. It’s kind of tough to answer that, because for me, rap exists whether the business or the industry exists regardless… But I would definitely pick people that didn’t just have dope, talented rhymes, but are also entertaining and dynamic. I’m not just talking about on record; I mean when you see them at a show or out in public doing their thing. I’ve met a lot of heads that can rip mics, but it takes more than that to build yourself up and be worth getting on stage out of town and demanding people’s money…
Reef: And it’s not like blowing up couldn’t happen for us or any of these cats we’re talking about. If people got together and really tried to make an effort to put all the petty hating and bullshit aside, we’d probably see a greater result… [For example,] I’m doing a song tonight with Adam at Viro the Virus’s album release party. He’s another great emcee on the come up, and even though Adam and I have done a lot in our careers, we’re rocking at this dude’s thing for free because we feel him like that… What I’m saying [to other emcees out] is don’t be stupid and feel like you can’t come off of your little throne and rock and be down with everyone else. The way I feel about it is unless I see you on TV everyday and you’ve sold a million records don’t come at me like you’re some kind of fucking hot shot…
Adam12: And that’s what I like about putting Reef on a Tidal Wave track, asking what I can do for it, and he says “Nah, it’s cool.” …That’s what the fuck is up because it proves to me that it’s cool between us on a level that heads who are famous and/or see hip-hop strictly as a job will never be with each other. For them it’ll always be a business transaction, and I can’t be content with my life if it was all about that.
